Welcome to my thoughts on the first part of the Foundation Group Read hosted by Carl at Stainless Steel Droppings. This group read will consist of two parts for Foundation, book one of The Foundation Novels series by Isaac Asimov.
As some of you may know, I am not a big sci-fi reader, and immediately shy away from classic sci-fy books. Based on this, when I first saw Carl’s post for the group read I immediately decided that it was not for me. Then, for some reason, I gave a second look, and thought that maybe this book could be a good “get my feet wet” classic sci-fi read because it is only 244 pages. Add to that, Carl holds fantastic group reads. So, here I am, one week into my reading and very ready to give you a few of my thoughts on Foundation....thus far.
For our first round of discussions, Carl provided questions to answer. This discussion is based on reading about half-way into the book.
For the purpose of satisfying curiosity, is this your first time reading Foundation or have you read it before?
This is my first time reading Foundation. As I indicated, I am getting “my feet wet” in classic sci-fi, and I tend to shy away from these type of books. I always figured - if I am not sci-fi reader, then surely, I will be bored to death with a classic sci-fi book.
For those reading Foundation for the first time, what expectations did you have going in and has it met them or surprised you in any way?
I expected to be bored, but thought that since it is a short read at 244 pages then I could certainly muster enough motivation to get myself through the book. I wanted the experience. I wanted to read a sci-fi book of this nature and say that I did it. I wanted to be able say, with confidence - yep, classic sci-fi is not for me. I certainly did not expect the surprise that was in store for me - I am loving this book. It has been exciting, intriguing, and engaging right from the start. The style of writing speaks to me; works well. How did I ever think that I would be bored? That, I certainly am not. I am psyched, no pun intended or was it?
What are your thoughts about the structure of the novel thus far? (I am referring to the brief glimpses of different parts of the history of the Foundation with big time gaps between events in the novel)
At first, when I realized the shift in time occurred, and that we jumped ahead 50 years - I was disappointed. I wanted to know more about Gaal Dornich, the trial, and the path taken afterwards. But then, I quickly became engaged with the events on Terminus, and felt that the past was not neglected - it was blending into this portion of the book. Then, the story jumps ahead again in time by about 30 years. This last jump, however, did not bother me at all, but did take me a moment to acclimate myself to the fact that a jump in time occurred again. I was clued into this by reading the Encyclopedia Galactica passage in the beginning of part three, and with “In the forty years I’ve known you…” This last jump served to gain my attention even more because the intrigue seems to be building. The time gaps are filling in - one piece at a time - which adds to that sense of intrigue with the present as well with the past. My attention is certainly being held. Why is this all working - these jumps? I think because the writing is smooth, and the history of Terminus and the galaxy has not been neglected which actually are very integral to the current lives, and storyline.
What are your initial thoughts on the field of psychohistory?
At first, I felt that psychohistory was hogwash, mumbo-jumbo… a field made up by Isaac Asimov…and made the story somewhat crazy. Even so, it was explained, and blended into the story so well that before I knew it – psychohistory became believable. As the field gained believability, I thought this concept is working great, and works for a sci-fi book. And now, at this point of the reading, I think it is a pretty neat idea - a field that could make some predictions based on behaviors of a group of people by combining the sociology aspect with math, and history. You loose me with the math, but with the history and sociology - I am there. Pretty neat. Even though I think this is pretty neat, I would not actually like the reality of it. There are potential problems with predictions - a god like complex could happen with society.
What, if anything, is holding your interest thus far, what are you enjoying about Foundation?
I am greatly intrigued with how the predictions are being played out. Mostly, the undercurrents that say an uprising will occur on Terminus. The power control that is underway - the disasters, failures, etc that are bound to happen are making me so ever curious. Suspenseful.
What, if anything, are you not enjoying about Foundation?
The lack of strong character connections. While I do like the time jumps, they seem to happen right around the time I start making a connection. I am a character centric reader, so this could be a potential problem with me, yet at this point, the story is holding my interest. I attribute that to the quick pace, and writing style.
You may have covered this in answering the other questions, but if not, what are your thoughts/feelings about the Galactic Empire. Is it a practical thing to have a galaxy spanning government? Can you imagine such a thing and do you think it would work?
This is an incredibly huge concept for me. The Galactic Empire is an intriguing, and for the most part, believable as it is written. For my brain to wrap around the hugeness of the Galactic Empire, my mind could not help but wander into Star Wars as a foundation for the concept. However, this huge empire is just not practical so it is of no surprise to me that its power has been stripped away. The galaxy is simply too vast of a span for one power. Frankly, one government even for Earth would not be practical or achievable. Okay, maybe at some point in time it could be achieved, but for how long? The people would not truly have a voice in a large singular government, and the intricacies involved to rule an incredible span with a huge population would be too complex to avoid some sort of rebellion.
What are your thoughts on Hardin's creation of a religious system in which to house scientific ideas and technology while keeping the users of that science and technology in the dark?
Disaster waiting to happen. That was the thought that came to my mind when I learned of this religious system. The thought has not left.
To join in on the discussion, or just to see what others have to say about part one – head on over to Foundation Group Read, Part 1 (of 2)
18 comments:
So glad you decided to take the plunge with us. You are a braver person than me to be determined to fight through it if it was boring. I just can't do that, after a time I realize I could be reading something I like.
However it was all for naught because you are enjoying it. Yes!!!
I'm glad that it is clicking with you. I think you hit the highlights of why the novel works and has continued to do so for all the decades since its initial publication. There are relevant concepts here and some very recognizable political maneuvering.
I don't mind the jumps at all either because it serves the kind of story Asimov is trying to tell. I feel the same way about the fact that we get very little time with any one group of characters. I will be interested to see your thoughts over the next two books if you join in with us as there is an ever so slight shift in there is more focus on a handful of characters for longer periods of time.
That religious system really would be a disaster waiting to happen as soon as people became aware of the truth, especially if some really intelligent folks started getting a grasp on the science and began experimenting with things on their own.
I also thought of Star Wars when thinking about the possibility of the Empire. At the same time, I think that the Empire in Star Wars gets a bad rap... it had it's problems, but aside from the whole Alderaan thing it didn't seem terribly evil, and probably provided much opportunity for backwater planets. :P
I just started Part III during lunch, and I'm curious as to how the religion thing will play out.
I also thought the book would be a tad bit boring and dated. But the other group reads I participated were fun so I thought, why not. Then I got into it and I'm loving it. The lack of character development isn't bothering me too much since the plot clips along at a fast pace. I'm getting sucked into the suspense and can't wait to see what impending disaster will occur. Good point about psychohistory in real life. It could create a mess! I am curious to see how the religious bit plays out.
I love it when I read a new kind of book out of my comfort zone and then end up loving it. It doesn't always happen, but when it does it's exciting.
I got overly attached to Gaal also, and then, poof, he was history. Once I realized that was going to happen, I remained very unattached to anyone else. It's an interesting way to read a book.
Hello
Good post. I liked your comment about the religions aspect - 'disaster waiting to happen'.
I haven't read a lot of sci fi and so I didn't know what to expect so it's a nice surprise that I'm enjoying this more than I anticipated.
I actually quite like the way that the time jumps foward although sometimes like you I am left feeling a little curious as to what has happened to a particular character.
What I'm enjoying most about this is the intrigue.
Thanks
Lynn :D
Ok...I should clarify, if Foundations was truly boring to me then I probably would fail greatly with this group read. But, if Foundations was not totally boring but also not greatly capturing me, i probably would have continued on just to get the experience of reading a sci-fi book of this nature. Besides, it is only 244 pages which is not much too me considering most of my books average close to 400 pages (pretty certain).
*You said.... That religious system really would be a disaster waiting to happen as soon as people became aware of the truth, especially if some really intelligent folks started getting a grasp on the science and began experimenting with things on their own. *
The thing is, people will become aware (they usually do), and I am certain that there will (would) be intelligent people amongst the incredibly large population, and those people would start grasp and experimenting on their own, and then rebellion occurs... dissension happens.
Yes, I agree... I think the Empire does get a bad rap in Star Wars. I am glad to see that I was not the only one who thought of Star Wars in regards to the Empire.
I am in the midst of part 3, and am am slightly anxious to see how the religious aspect turns out. I am thinking that things are going to go sour soon for at least one group.
You summed that up well for me... I thought "why not" too because the other group reads have been great (even if I did not completely participate). That was key for me going ahead with the book after i decided that it may be a good starting point in the classic side of sci-fi.
Good point, the plot does clip along which is why I am not irked by the lack of character connection. Normally, by this point in a book, I would be slightly irked/put off by this aspect.
Oh yes, the impending disaster...this is what I keep thinking about while I have been away from the book. what is going to happen? Good thing I will fine out soon, or I hope I do considering this is book one.
Yes... the intrigue is immense. That is probably the most surprising part of the book - now that I think about it. I guess, I never figured classic sci-fi could have such intrigue...such suspense.
It is great when you wind up loving a book that is out of your comfort zone. I will admit, I very rarely read outside of my comfort zone. Although, I think I have a descent reading scope even if I concentrate heavily on fantasy, and historical fiction reads.
Me too...I became very attached to Gaal and that is why I was
greatly disappointed with the first jump in time - Gaal was instantly and quickly out of the story without any warning.
Interesting...unattached to the characters based on Gaal poofing away. That makes think back to my reading - now that you mention this - I think I too have remained a bit unattached to the characters too because I do know that I am wondering when the next jump will be...I am on guard for it.
A military based government that caused the genocide of an entire planet
of people, a non-military planet at that, and attempted to do it again
and would have kept on doing so to crush what even they felt was an
insignificant threat is getting a bad rap?
Not sure I agree with that. :)
The interesting thing about a set of films like Star
Wars is that it seems to be light sf fare for the kiddies but the bad
guys are really and truly awful. And that is just the governmental
system. Then if you look at one of their main leaders, Vader, you see a
guy who takes a torture machine into a cell to interrogate a teenage
princess, then later tortures Han Solo with shock therapy and doesn't
even ask him any questions.
Hmmmm.....
I guess I agree that even a large Roman style government would see prosperity for parts of its people, but it would also see the exploitation of those planets that have resources it needs, so I'm not sure any benevolence would be worth the price.
Yes, I see what you are saying, but was it not based on horrible leadership? I am thinking, what was trying to be said, that the Empire was not bad as a whole for many other planets, and had good potential if not for the aspect of one horrific person in great power and the attack on *Alderaan.
*
Do you think there could have been potential for a different Empire if not for Vader's influence? Anyway, there the trouble lays for any government and most especially for a dictatorship government - a bad seed gains ultimate power - authority - and the people below start to become powerless.
It was definitely horrible leadership. I guess for me I have a hard time divorcing the "empire" from its leaders, but I guess that is unfair. In and of itself the Empire in SW is probably little different than the Republic from the average person's perspective.
It was more of the Emperor's influence than Vader's since Vader was little more than a pawn up until he started getting the urge to overthrow his master.
As for Asimov's Empire, I haven't ever gotten the impression that it was necessarily bad, just that it was too big to be effective on an ongoing basis. I cannot imagine an empire that big where there would be any equitable form of government. There would be all kinds of potential for abuses from the "middle managers" who would really be in charge of the more out of the way areas.
Your powerless comment makes me think that even folks on a planet that is just one huge city would have to feel powerless, wouldn't they? I cannot imagine.
I did not get the impression that Asimov's Empire was bad. I did get the impression that they were neglectful in minding and encouraging continued growth of knowledge/inventions, etc. Also, they allowed for Trantor to become to specific in how they function, and relied too much om outsourcing. Ouch...that rings a bell...our country is outsourcing a ton, and we are seeing a decline in our economics. I wonder, a connection? Not building enough of own, relying too much on others. A whole different topic, but not too different.
I think the powerless comes into play also when you specialize too much in one area and rely too much on others to provide your other needs. Add to that, an Empire that is controlling a vast territory and population. I cannot imagine that there is too much room for democracy there - how could there be?
Very interesting, all this is, especially since these discussions and thoughts are being triggered from a book that was published in 1951.
Oh yes, that does ring a bell! It makes me wonder if something like an empire under any circumstance would be doable. It almost seems to me that it would be a natural evolutionary course for an empire to get so big that eventually it would not be able to administrate itself and would become a bloated, overindulgent system that could not be regulated properly and would eventually result in groups of people, or in this case planets, rising up to claim responsibility over their own destiny.
I'm just now getting to everyone's posts, I know, I'm late to the party!
For folks new to scifi, Asimov's Foundation is a great place to start. It's easy and fun to read, no infodumps, and you don't have to be any kind of geek to get the jokes. I'm so happy you decided to do Carl's read along!
It's been about 10 years since I last read Foundation, so i truly don't remember what happens, if people realize what's happening and rebel against the Foundation. . . whatever happened it must have been interesting, because reading Foundation was the beginning of my long love affair with Asimov.
You hit the nail on the head - I never felt like there was infodump, it was easy and fun to read.
Oh man Carl. So sorry about how lacking I have become in timely replying back to comments AND approving comments made to my blog. In my defense, these last three weeks have been a bit overwhelming.
By the way, after thinking about Empires a bit more....I have concluded that they are not doable. At least, they are not doable for people like us who know and enjoy a certain amount of freedoms and are allowed a lot of individuality.
By the way, I am reading Foundation and Empire. Not quite as far as the rest of you, but am gaining. Thanks for bringing this series to my attention. i am enjoying it.
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